Podcasters who can elevate or transform their podcast concept or content into a unique book are best positioned to secure a publishing deal
Almost a quarter of the US population listens to multiple podcasts weekly, so it’s no surprise that publishers have turned to podcasters as ideal authors who have a ready platform and readership. Recent New York Times bestsellers based on podcasts include Stay Sexy & Don’t Get Murdered by My Favorite Murder hosts Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark and Welcome to Night Vale by Joseph Fink and Jeffrey Cranor.
Editors and literary agents are actively reaching out to podcasters about potential book deals. Stephanie Hitchcock, senior editor at Atria Books (Simon & Schuster), saw the potential for a book when she listened to the first season of Jane Marie’s podcast The Dream, about multi-level marketing, and reached out to her. “It was so cinematically told and so interestingly plotted that I was completely hooked, but I got the sense that there were so many different and new ways of expanding the story,” says Hitchcock.
Jordana Hawkins, a senior editor at Running Press (Hachette), is an avid true crime fan who signed podcasters Suruthi Bala and Hannah Maguire for RedHanded: An Exploration of Criminals, Cannibals, Cults, and What Makes a Killer Tick, based on their podcast of the same name. The book will delve more fully into some cases that were discussed on the podcast and include some new cases. Having celebrity fans doesn’t hurt, either; the publisher’s blurb boasts that Anna Paquin named it her “all-time favorite true crime podcast.” Hawkins says what drew her to the project was “the authors’ sharp wit and sense of humor” and the extensive research they’d done on their subjects. Hawkins expects to see podcast-based books grow in popularity, since they’re “a terrific way for podcasters to bring new material to their fans and expand upon what they’re already doing in a new format.”
To break into the book market, podcasters should have a clear idea of what elevates their book from their podcast and how the two are interconnected. Hawkins says, “A good podcast-based book proposal should tell the podcast’s story, why it exists, and what it is trying to accomplish. The podcaster should have a strong grasp on how many listeners they have, how engaged fans are, and who their demographics are.” She’s eager to see more podcast-based book proposals, especially any that are “personality- or voice-driven, a little cheeky, and that enthusiastic fans will come to.” She’s also looking for what a podcaster-turned-author will do to set the material in their book apart from their podcast; in the case of RedHanded, they’ve included illustrations from mixed media artist Kavel Rafferty to complement the authors’ writing.
Brenda Knight, director of editorial acquisition at Mango, has also found success with podcasters such as The Story Behind podcast host Emily Prokop. Knight signed Prokop for the book The Story Behind: The Extraordinary History Behind Ordinary Objects. For Mango, the topic and category are as important as a podcaster’s metrics. “Even if they have just a few thousand subscribers, if they get a lot of shares, and the podcaster is a savvy social media marketer, that’s meaningful,” she says. That being said, she’s looking for podcasts with “legs,” meaning she wants the podcast to be in at least its second year or season and have at least 100,000 downloads. Knight is especially interested in topics related to history, science, and habits and would welcome podcaster book proposals that could lend themselves to a series.
Gail Ross, president of the Ross Yoon Agency and media lawyer with Trister, Ross, Schadler & Gold, PLLC, has sold books such as Big Friendship (Simon & Schuster, 2020) by Call Your Girlfriend hosts Ann Friedman and Aminatou Sow and represents Crazy/Genius podcaster Derek Thompson, author of Hit Makers (Penguin Press) and the forthcoming The Committee to Save the World. Ross says that sometimes a podcast can inspire a book idea, even if the book isn’t directly based on the podcast. In the case of Big Friendship, she’d been discussing book ideas with Friedman prior to Call Your Girlfriend, but once the podcast took off, “it became clear” that the relationship between the hosts as best friends, co-workers, and podcast partners was a topic that warranted deeper examination.
While having a large number of listeners is helpful, it’s not the only measure of whether a podcast is book worthy. Ross says how your podcast is being received, whether that involves media attention or high-profile listeners who’ve been vocal about praising the podcast, can also help raise its profile. “If you don’t have numbers, you want to have influence,” says Ross.
Everyone emphasizes that the book can’t simply feel like an extended podcast episode, but must go deeper. According to Joy Fowlkes, podcast agent at The Gernert Company, “If it’s a limited narrative series, the book has to feel like it’s accomplishing something that the podcast wasn’t able to put together. Perhaps there were sources who were uncomfortable being taped that could be incorporated into the book format. Maybe the topic was so timely that the podcast was rushed, whereas the book can be a longer process.” Fowlkes says she’s been impressed by “podcasters that compensate for what’s been lost in audio storytelling,” citing Flash Forward by Rose Eveleth and The 99% Invisible City by Roman Mars, since both titles “brought in really talented artists to build out compelling visual companion work.”
Fowlkes says that fiction podcasters can look for characters who don’t have as large of a speaking role who might make for great protagonists of a novel. She noted, “Rich world building and interior characters don’t work as well in scripted fiction podcasts, but they could be perfect for the book adaptation.” Since a book version of a podcast has to “feel additive,” podcasters may want to “build out prequel universes or speak to alternate settings within the same podcast universe,” as others have done to draw in listeners-turned-readers.
Sometimes, it’s podcast listeners who make it very clear that there’s a market for a book by their favorite hosts. For Jolenta Greenberg and Kristen Meinzer, hosts of the By The Book podcast, in which they live by a different self-help book each episode, it was listeners who started clamoring for a book from them “almost immediately” after they launched in 2017. Publishers reached out too, and the podcasters wound up signing a deal with William Morrow. A jointly authored title, How to Be Fine, was published in March 2020, but the authors were clear they didn’t want to just rehash the format of the show. “That would have provided nothing new for By The Book listeners, and it also wouldn’t have been as user friendly for readers who’d never heard the show,” they say. Instead, they looked at old podcast scripts for ideas and categorized their wealth of self-help book knowledge for readers into what worked, what didn’t, and what they wished more self-help books would advise. They also incorporated listener feedback into the book, with letters they’d received preceding each chapter.
Podcasts also work very well as ongoing promotional tools before, during, and after a book’s release. Ross cited client Lisa Damour, PhD, who started a podcast in 2020 with Reena Ninan called Ask Lisa: The Psychology of Parenting to reach listeners during the pandemic more quickly than a new book could. Doing the podcast also gave her an opportunity to promote her prior books, Under Pressure and Untangled, to a new audience who may not have encountered them when they were first released.
Podcasts offer the appeal of a regular relationship with their listeners, giving authors numerous chances to promote their book and offer teasers of what to expect without being heavy handed. They can weave mentions of their book into relevant segments or just remind listeners that reading their book is another way to support them. If they do live events, whether in person or virtual, they can record them to air on the podcast. Greenberg and Meinzer discussed their book’s impending launch on the podcast and ran a contest asking people to post a photo of themselves on social media with their book to enter to win a signed copy of another book they’d lived by on the show.
Podcasts are also a way to preserve book launch events for those who can’t attend. Greenberg and Meinzer held a virtual book launch party hosted by Anne Bogel, host of the podcast What Should I Read Next, and released the full Q&A from the event as a standalone episode. Friedman and Sow hosted a Summer of Friendship series of episodes that included discussions of their book and related topics. In pre-pandemic times, podcasters with large followings, such as Kilgariff and Hardstark of My Favorite Murder, have done book tour events in theaters, recording them for the podcast. With many forthcoming podcast-based books in the works, podcast-to-book is a trend that seems poised to expand alongside podcast listening.
Bottom line: Hitchcock from Atria says, “A straight script from a podcast isn’t that interesting, but how a podcaster or writer decides to treat the material is what makes the difference.” She sees potential in podcasts not only because podcasters have to hone their storytelling craft but also because they have access to statistics about their listeners that can help a publisher market their book. “The beauty of a podcast is you have a pretty intimate demographic detailing that helps locate who the reader is,” she says. Hitchcock says good podcasters also have “a real dedication from the fans,” developed from the intimacy of the listening experience, that can help make a podcast-based book successful.
Rachel Kramer Bussel is a freelance writer specializing in books and culture. She also writes and edits erotica and teaches erotic writing workshops. Follow her on Twitter: @raquelita
