Self-Publishing and Traditional Publishing: Enjoy the Best of Both Worlds


By

CJ Lyons

CJ Lyons (@cjlyonswriter) is an award-winning, critically acclaimed New York Times and USA Today bestselling author. She practiced pediatrics and pediatric emergency medicine for 17 years before scoring her first big book deal, after which she quit her job and decided to become a full-time author. However, a few weeks before her first book was to be published, it was pulled for reasons beyond her control.

What happened next? She went on to have a very successful publishing career despite that initial bump in the road, in both traditional publishing and self-publishing. Her independently published novels have sold a million copies in less than a year, and at one time, her books held five of the top ten slots on Amazon.

Because CJ represents an emerging model of hybrid author, I asked for her perspective on questions of both traditional publishing and self-publishing. I am very grateful to her for spending some of her precious writing time to offer such insightful information.

Your career started off in traditional publishing with a dream deal, but as you’ve often spoken and written about, that first deal didn’t have a fairytale ending. How do you think that traditional publishing launchpad has impacted your career arc—positively and/or negatively? 

Even though my dream debut didn’t turn out as planned, overall, I think I’m enjoying a fairytale ending—living the best of all worlds. My traditional publishing helped me to gain critical acclaim, win awards, gave me my first bestseller, and is still a wonderful way to reach my readers who enjoy finding my print books in stores.

The downside of traditional publishing and the reason why I first began self-publishing is that it’s impossible to get books out as fast as readers want them. That’s where taking advantage of alternative publishing paradigms such as self-publishing can serve the reader, the author, the agent (via subright sales), and yes, even the traditional publisher. I proved this to my current publisher when I used an ad in the back of my self-published e-books to drive pre-sales of a traditionally published novel.

There’s no reason why authors should limit themselves to an either/or mindset—not when you can have it all, while also pleasing and delighting your readers.

Currently you have a hybrid publishing approach—traditionally publishing some titles and self-publishing others. How do you decide which path to take with each book?

My agent and I make this decision together. When I began self-publishing, I began with titles that we approached NYC publishing with but haven’t gotten the offers we wanted, so went ahead and self-published. Since my success with self-published e-books has increased my profile with publishers and given me a well-documented track record of sales, they now come to us and invite us to partner with them on projects, which is refreshing.

Given that one person can only write so fast, we’ve turned down several offers, but are always eager to discuss mutually beneficial partnerships with publishers of any size. In fact, my new YA thrillers are being published via Sourcebooks because their marketing plan to reach this new-to-me audience was so outstanding.

When I heard you speak last fall at Pennwriters, you went through the math of why it was a smarter decision to self-publish some of your work. Would you share that math here?

Instead of using any of my own offers as examples, let’s use a hypothetical where the math will be easy to do. Caveats to remember are:

  • advances are usually paid out in three installments over at least two years 
  • advances must be earned out before any additional money is paid to the author
  • the majority of traditional contracts signed now will tie up your rights for decades to perhaps the lifetime of the book, which is why it is essential that you partner with an agent and/or literary attorney before signing anything!

Oh, people should also know another reality of traditional publishing: over 80% of books do not earn back their initial advance. Not earning out = no royalties.

Okay, taking those caveats, let’s say you received an offer of $50,000 for your novel. Remember that the average advance is around $5,000 to $10,000 depending on your genre. Should you take it?

On the surface, it looks like a fantastic deal, right? BUT that advance will be paid over two years, so that gives you $25,000 a year. The odds of earning more are very little after that, at least not until you sell at least 100,000 books (combining 8% mass market and 25% net e-book royalties for ease of calculation)

And that’s it. One book, $25,000/year x 2 years, minus taxes and agent fees (typically 15%).

What if you self-published that same book? If you priced it at $4.99, you’d make $3 per book (at 70% royalty rate), so to make that $25,000/year you’ll need to sell 8,333 books per year or 700 books per month—OR to make the total $50,000, you’ll need to sell 16,666 books, about 83,000 less than with a traditional publisher.

BUT you get to keep earning money with every book sold forever. So even if it takes you a year or two to earn back the equivalent of the NYC offer, you get to keep building your profits. And with each new book you release, sales of the first will increase.

Now that I’ve totally reversed your thinking about that “very nice” $50,000 advance, remember there are still benefits to publishing with a traditional publisher. You need to look at more than just the money; focus on where partnering with this publisher on this project fits your overall business plan.

A traditional publisher can help to build your platform, grow your readership, and gain you attention that you might not be able to gain yourself. It’s important to weigh all the factors: who your audience is, how difficult are they for you to reach on your own, what your financial situation is, how fast you write, and so on.

What’s your agent’s role in regards to your self-pub work?

We’re a team. She takes her money from the deals she negotiates: foreign rights, audio, TV/film, other subrights. And thanks to her, my self-published books have earned far more from those subrights deals than they would have if we had taken any of those earlier traditional offers.

What’s your quality-control process for your self-pub titles?

I work with several professional editors, have a group of critique partners who are all multi-published, award-winning authors who are ruthlessly honest with their feedback (our motto when it comes to critiques is: if there isn’t blood on the page, we took it too easy on each other), a cadre of beta readers from my Street Team, and of course my agent weighs in on each title.

How do you recommend self-pub authors find quality editors for their work? What can they expect to pay?

This is the toughest decision an author faces! And it’s just as true for authors seeking traditional publishers—my agent and I would spend hours deciding on which editor we submitted to, and we’d do tons of research on their editorial style and how it would fit my needs.

When you’re going it alone, it’s much harder. First, I’d ask fellow writers (traditionally published or not—many NYC editors freelance) writing in the same genre for recommendations. Genre is important—you want an editor who understands readers’ expectations as far as pacing, character development, etc. Most freelance editors will do a few pages for free so you can see if their style resonates with you.

For developmental editing you’ll pay more, often $5–$10 a page or a flat fee of a few thousand dollars. For copyediting, rates vary from a flat fee to per word or per page, but in my experience it’s usually averaged out to around $1 a page. Proofreading is a little less, as they’re only looking for errors in spelling, grammar, and punctuation, not the continuity and line-editing that copy editors provide.

Bartering with friends who have experience is a great way to start if you don’t have the money. Just make sure they know what they’re talking about. I’d still pay a professional copyeditor for one final look before publishing.

I use at least two to three editors per novel—usually two copyeditors and one proofreader. I’ve had NYC-published books that have had seven or more editors and readers still find mistakes, so don’t get caught in the trap of endless editing, as no book is perfect. But do strive to publish a professional product. Remember your competition: NYT bestsellers. Never give readers a reason to think you’re second-class.

You can also check out this freelance editor association that has prices and lists of editors.

I think you’re one of the best author-marketers I’ve ever seen (as I’ve said before!), but I know you shy away from being called a marketing genius. :-) Still, I believe you took concrete steps to learn how to be an authentic and meaningful marketer—partly by being a student of Copyblogger. Could you describe your growth in this area, as well as one or two strategies or tools that have been most effective for you? I know many novelists struggle with how to market their work—particularly through social media—without constantly feeling like a shill.

Thanks! After my dream debut fiasco, I realized that I needed to learn and understand the business—if only so I could choose my partners more wisely after having a major NYC publisher and my first agent abandon me so completely. I began to immerse myself in not just publishing but marketing and business, subscribing to Copyblogger, Lateral Action, Seth Godin, Simon Sinek, and even the free Harvard Business Review newsletter.

(BTW, you can pretty much create your own MBA curriculum via free blogs and newsletters! I share all these resources on my NoRulesJustWRITE.com site if you need a jumpstart.)

What was most enlightening and changed my approach to marketing was the realization that the professional marketers were talking about the power of story and how important it was to sell their products to their target audiences. I realized I already had the skill set they were trying to learn: storytelling.

Then I discovered Seth Godin’s theory of Tribes and how building the right community of a hundred connected, engaged, and excited audience members was more important than reaching an apathetic audience of millions.

When I combined the two and realized that marketing was really just telling the right story to the right people, everything clicked. I stopped trying to blog (never my strong suit and it sapped my creative energy), stopped jumping on every social media bandwagon, and gave myself permission to play to my strengths: writing books and chatting with my fans via e-mail.

I did tweak my e-mail newsletter last year, so now it’s once a month but not always about me. Instead I feature other authors my readers will enjoy—after all, I can’t write fast enough to keep up with the way they devour my books, so why not introduce them to others who write Thrillers with Heart? My mailing list went up about 10% since that change.

People always ask what I “do” for marketing. I enjoy learning about new things and trying them out, so I sometimes experiment with advertising (I’m doing a major campaign with the help of a few professionals in February and March), and I still do guest blogs when invited, but mostly it’s writing more books, sending my monthly e-mail to my newsletter group, and once or twice a week stopping by Facebook.

One new thing that I’m working on is a Goodreads community devoted to Thrillers with Heart (not just my books) and that’s growing nicely. My hope is to get one of the readers to take over as moderator and keep the discussion lively, as that’s simply not my strong suit. In fact, that’s the best advice I can give authors: play to your own passions.

If you love Tweeting and Facebooking, then chat away! If you’re an introvert (or a hermit like me), then maybe blogging or writing flash fiction will engage your readers without sapping your energy.

Do build a mailing list—don’t let Facebook or a social media site control your access to your readers. And always stay true to your brand: the emotional promise you make your readers with your books. So, for example, if you write Shaker Inspirational novels and your brand is: It’s a Gift to Be Simple, then your readers probably aren’t going to be interested in or connect with content that’s about how to find the best sex toys for your BDSM fantasy roleplaying.

Stay true to yourself and what you’ve promised your readers and they’ll stay true to you.

Do you have a specific strategy for balancing your writing time with your marketing/promotion time? 

I wish … after seventeen years as a doctor tied to a beeper and other people’s schedules, I have given myself permission with my new career to do what I want, when I want. Which 99% of the time means writing the next book. But, since I’ve found that’s my best marketing tool, it becomes time well-spent.

Many aspiring writers ask me if I recommend self-publishing first or traditional publishing first. I find that the answer is different for just about every writer. If you believe that’s the case too, then what questions should writers ask themselves to figure out which path is right for them?

I’m a firm believer in having it all! Why not pursue both? Finish your first novel, revise, revise, revise until it rivals New York Times bestsellers (your true competition in getting the attention of agents, publishers, and readers) then start the query process while you write the next.

Odds are by the time you have the second book polished you’ll know whether traditional publishing is right for you, then you can make a clear decision whether it’s worth pursuing or if you’d be better off self-publishing and building an audience as you continue to hone your craft (which never, ever stops, by the way!).

Oh, and don’t forget the power of small presses! There are some excellent ones that really know their audience and how to connect with them. Just because they may not be located in NYC doesn’t mean they aren’t excellent partners. That’s what agents and publishers are: strategic partners who help you get your book into the hands of YOUR readers.

Readers don’t care how the book gets to them—but be warned, once they read one and love it they want more, right here, right now! So I don’t advise publishing your first novel until you have another ready to go.

More about CJ
New York Times and USA Today bestselling author of eighteen novels, former pediatric ER doctor CJ Lyons (@cjlyonswriter) has lived the life she writes about in her cutting edge Thrillers with Heart. CJ has been called a “master within the genre” (Pittsburgh Magazine) and her work has been praised as “breathtakingly fast-paced” and “riveting” (Publishers Weekly) with “characters with beating hearts and three dimensions” (Newsday). Learn more about CJ’s Thrillers with Heart at www.CJLyons.net and everything she knows about being a bestseller and selling a million books at www.NoRulesJustWRITE.com.

CJ Lyons Thrillers with Heart

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Writing + Money + Life

If you enjoyed this article, then I think you'll love Scratch, a new digital magazine that I founded to help writers learn more about the business side of publishing. It explores how a writing life can be sustained—and even thrive—in the digital age, and writers share thought-provoking stories about the role money plays in their personal lives and careers. Browse the free preview issue here.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Natalie-Aguirre/100000307408111 Natalie Aguirre

    Wow! This was a fantastic interview. I learned so much about not only self-publishing vs. traditional publishing but also about marketing in general. Thanks so much for sharing so much information. The questions and answers were great.

  • CJ Lyons

    Thanks, Natalie! I’m delighted that you enjoyed the interview–Jane always asks the best questions, makes it easy!

  • http://www.marsdorian.com/ Mars Dorian

    I got introduced to her through Joanna Penn and the boys over at Self-Publishing Podcast (which was a hilarious episode).

    I think she’s the prime model of today’s authorpreneur :
    An independent spirit who knows how to build a personal brand and how to cater to your own fan base. Being the “linchpin” of the whole art and knowing what makes sense in your business and what doesn’t.

    Although I don’t read Thrillers, I’m going to further check out her website. Thanx for teaching us those sweet-a-licous tips !

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  • http://twitter.com/dawngroves_ Dawn Groves

    Xlnt interview! What I love most about the net is the generosity of spirit reflected through this kind of sharing. Thank-you Jane & CJ. You really make a difference.

  • Dina Santorelli

    This is a spot-on and awesome interview. I too agree that readers don’t care how a book has gotten to them — all they care about is the story and that it’s professionally packaged (edited, reedited, good cover design, etc.). I had to laugh when I read the last line. I self-published my debut novel, BABY GRAND, before I had another book (including its sequel) ready. Now, readers are clamoring for more books as I sit here with my writer’s block — I actually lost a star rating on Goodreads simply because the sequel to BABY GRAND was not available yet. LOL! Again, great interview, and I just joined your Thrillers with Heart Goodreads group. :) All best!

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  • CJ Lyons

    Thanks, Mars! Glad this resonated with you–and thrilled that you enjoyed the podcast with the guys at SPP, what a fun time that was!

    Understanding my brand (my promise to readers) and using the simple idea: will this make my readers jump with delight? has made it soooo much easier to solve almost every business dilemma. Not to mention a lot less stressful!

    Happy writing,
    CJ

  • CJ Lyons

    Thanks, Dawn! I appreciate your kind words and am delighted that the interview resonated with you.
    CJ

  • http://twitter.com/MEWelman M.E.Welman

    Very insightful interview and I like the fact that Ms. Lyons has grabbed hold of her own destiny and taken charge of her marketing. The power of the narrative is very important and Ms. Lyons has figured that out. She should be teaching this in graduate programs (they could use it). Excellent advice, thank you.

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  • CJ Lyons

    Dina, that truly has been the most difficult challenge–keeping my readers happy with more books. It’s taught me to write faster but it’s still tough. You might want to consider placating your fans with a free short story that will tie into the next full length novel.

    Hope that helps,
    CJ

  • CJ Lyons

    Thanks, ME! Your kind words made my day! I love to teach–just wish I had more time to do it.
    Take care,
    CJ

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  • Bob Sanchez

    Thanks for the informative and thoughtful interview. I have had three agents for my novels but had to self-publish to go any further. Now I’ve lost interest in traditional publishing.

  • CJ Lyons

    You’re not alone in that, Bob! If you have the means to reach your audience without a traditional publisher, it only makes sense to go for the 70% royalty self-pubbing offers.

    Best of luck!
    CJ

  • Dina Santorelli

    Oooh, that’s a great idea! I had been thinking about publishing a short story that ties into my next book AFTER that book’s publication. But perhaps it’s better to do so beforehand. Thanks for the advice, and all the best to you!

  • CJ Lyons

    Glad to help!

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  • Judy G.

    CJ’s advice is quite helpful to the uninitiated. I wish I knew more about her audience in order to evaluate how relevant it is to my potential audience (or anyone’s). Is it Young Adult exclusively? Thank you.

    Judy Glass

    judithglass@comcast.net

  • CJ Lyons

    Hi Judy, glad you found it helpful! My first YA won’t come out until November.

    My most recent novels are mainstream FBI thrillers (no romance) and earlier books were thrillers with romantic elements.

    My current audience is 55% women, the majority are 34-60yrs but with a healthy representation of younger women as well (not so many younger men), most with college education and beyond, and middle class to upper middle class income range.

    Hope that helps,
    CJ

  • Doreen Pendgracs

    Terrific interview. It’s so fascinating how everyone is finding the right formula to suit their own unique situations and experience levels. There no longer is a right/wrong way or one size fits all approach to publishing.

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  • http://www.fantasyscroll.com/ Iulian Ionescu

    Great interview and wonderful insights. For some reason, self-publishing still scares me. It makes so much sense, but it’s still scary…

    Thank you,

    Iulian

  • Beduwen

    Great post! It’s wonderful to see how you have taken the reins of your own publishing “horse” instead of being led by any particular agent/publisher. And the royalty comparison was also very enlightening. Thanks for sharing your experience CJ. And terrific questions by Jane!

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  • Joanne Yeck

    What great, level-headed advice. I especially like the sentiment behind No Rules Just Write. And, of course, rewrite!

  • Robin

    I learned a ton reading this interview. It’s making me take a deeper look at traditional vs. self-pub. Thank you Jane and CJ. And for all the links, I’m about to get reading:)

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  • Drew Holmes

    Great interview. I am at a Xroads with my writing. I have been self-publishing for two years now, but my sales are dismal to say the least. Just wrote my first fiction, A Broken Rose (http://www.amazon.com/A-Broken-Rose-ebook/dp/B00BFJB3LU/ref=sr_1_4?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1360986813&sr=1-4&keywords=a+broken+rose) but after being available via ebook services, I have not had any takers. I read so much where people get 25-50 sales per day and I am wondering what I am doing wrong. And, the few sales that I have, no one has even bothered to leave feedback so that others can even look at it (whether it’s good feedback or bad).

    Any advice you could give me? Thanks in advance.

  • Deanie Humphrys-Dunne

    That was an excellent interview! Very informative and I’m sure many people gleaned valuable information from it. You seldom read something where traditional publishing and self publishing are thoroughly explored.

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  • Elysia Brenner

    Excellent advice here! Seems again the focus comes back to having good agents. I’d love to hear her advice on finding one of those, and more about her experience of being “dumped” by her first.

  • LJ Anderson

    This is like the 3rd Time I have read this interview. Awesome

  • pam eglinski

    How do you find a GOOD literary lawyer and/or a GOOD agent that will work with you on ONLY the publishing-house contracts? I think very little of agents, at the moment, however they may still be good for something … like literary rights abroad and perhaps movie rights. Appreciate your response. Thanks.

  • http://janefriedman.com/ Jane Friedman

    Try looking for an agent through PublishersMarketplace.com or the AAR (aaronnline.org). A lawyer-agent I’ve heard good things about: Elaine English.

  • Brayden

    Thank you so much for this post!! This has helped clear my head of so many questions I have about self-pub vs. traditional!

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  • AnnieC

    I just stumbled across this and what great advice it has! Thanks so much!

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